SYW294 – Smaller Scale Hybrid Scrapbooking

[00:00:17] Denine Zielinski: I always want to start with, these are the stories I have to tell. I keep the stories on my phone, in my notes app, and I pull from there. Sometimes I have to negotiate with myself. How do I use this birthday kit to tell this story that I'm drawn to? And so you have to be a little creative sometimes, mixing things together. But it's possible. Absolutely.

[00:00:39] Welcome to Scrapbook Your Way, the show that explores the breadth of ways to be a memory keeper today. I'm your host, Jennifer Wilson, owner of Simple Scrapper and author of The New Rules of Scrapbooking. This is episode 294. In this episode, I'm joined by returning guest and Simple Scrapper creative team member, Denine Zielinski.

[00:01:02] We're chatting about the details of Denine's process for making smaller scale hybrid scrapbook pages.

[00:01:09] Jennifer Wilson: Hey, Denine welcome back to Scrapbook Your Way.

[00:01:12] Denine Zielinski: Hey Jennifer thank you so much for having me again.

[00:01:15] Jennifer Wilson: Could you refresh the memories of our listeners and share some of your basics? Where do you live? Who's in your family? All that.

[00:01:23] Denine Zielinski: Absolutely. Um, I live in northeastern Pennsylvania. Um, I would say about an hour outside of Allentown, if anyone's ever heard of that. Two hours outside of Philadelphia. And, um, I am a single mom to a son who is now an adult, so he, he turned 25 this past year. Which blows my mind.

[00:01:44] Jennifer Wilson: Yeah.

[00:01:46] Denine Zielinski: It feels like just yesterday that he was born, so time is just clicking off. Um, and I am a middle school teacher teaching history to eighth grade students. That's pretty much, that's pretty much me.

[00:02:00] Jennifer Wilson: Yes, yes. Uh, eighth, my daughter's an eighth grader right now, and

[00:02:04] it's such an interesting year. Like they're, they're still so young and so old and wise at the same time.

[00:02:10] Denine Zielinski: Yeah, I couldn't imagine teaching any other level. They're manageable, um, they're still open to newness, and they're not set in their ways, and it's, this is my 19th year of teaching. So I would definitely not want to teach another grade level. I just think 8th grade is, it's a formative year, and I like being a part of it for a lot of those kiddos.

[00:02:35] Jennifer Wilson: Wonderful. Wonderful. So I have to ask before we continue, tomorrow is the Superbowl. Are you an Eagles fan or do you not care?

[00:02:42] Denine Zielinski: I don't care, I love football. And I don't have a team. I just like to watch the sport. And I haven't had a team since I was in high school. I used to be a Miami Dolphins fan. Um, but no, now, it's, to me, it's just like, let's watch this game because this is good stuff. That's it for me now.

[00:03:04] Jennifer Wilson: No, I can appreciate that. Like, I, I am not, I don't even really like football, but I can appreciate a good competitive game and I can see why people get into it. And the more I watch it, the more I can understand what's happening. Um, and I don't know, I guess I'm kind of rooting for the Eagles just as the underdog. Because, you know, does anybody really need to win three years in a row?

[00:03:26] But I'm also a Taylor Swift fan. So, you know, Taylor Swift's boyfriend, go him.

[00:03:31] Denine Zielinski: Absolutely.

[00:03:34] Jennifer Wilson: Let all the teams have fun!

[00:03:36] Denine Zielinski: Yeah, to me either either team winning is fine with me. I just like watching it. And I'm going to just tell you that my favorite part is usually the halftime show. So I will I will stay up because I'm not I did not want to stay up late. But I will stay up and once that halftime show is over.

[00:03:53] I'll say okay Let the, let the outcome of this game be a surprise for me tomorrow. Because I just, I, I could make it so far but that halftime show last year was phenomenal and I'm so looking forward to this year as well.

[00:04:08] Jennifer Wilson: Yes, yes, yes. I love that too. And I think a lot of folks that I've watched with in the past, decades or so, like if we have people over, a lot of them end up going home during halftime. And so that I don't think I've really ever seen like the full halftime show on my own uninterrupted. Um, because it's not a priority for others. So I can, I can understand that, but I'm excited about it too.

[00:04:33] Denine Zielinski: Absolutely. And you can't forget the commercials as well, because we all know it's going to be filled with interesting commercials. So.

[00:04:40] Jennifer Wilson: They get weirder and weirder. I think.

[00:04:42] Denine Zielinski: I know, you know, the world is getting weirder and weirder. So, just following suit, right?

[00:04:50] Jennifer Wilson: Uh, so do you have a favorite recent layout or project? Can you tell us all about it and why it stands out as something you've loved and appreciate that you've created?

[00:05:01] Denine Zielinski: Well, lately, most of my energies in creativity have been focused on my December Daily. And I'm still, I'm not done. I have four stories left to go, and I kind of took a pause. Um, I don't know, I'm having a little struggle between, finish it this year or enjoy the done by December next year. Because I've never

[00:05:27] Jennifer Wilson: Yeah, participated.

[00:05:28] Yeah.

[00:05:28] Denine Zielinski: In the done by December ever.

[00:05:30] I'm always done in January right after Christmas is over. And I don't know. There's a part of me that would love to just have those four last stories to tell when next year rolls around. So, but I'm having that internal struggle, right? Because I'm like, Oh, I love to finish. And it's like, can I go and not finish it all the way until August and September of next year?

[00:05:57] So I'm still on the fence. I haven't made the decision, but, um, yeah.

[00:06:02] Jennifer Wilson: Maybe you want to finish it for like scrappy Christmas in July.

[00:06:06] Maybe that would be like a little bit better.

[00:06:09] Denine Zielinski: That's a good idea, too, because I'm off from school in the summer, and I do have a lot more time, um, and energy. And I definitely am more productive in the summer than I am in the winter months. So that would be a good idea, too.

[00:06:23] It's just kind of struggling within, you know, for me, because my personality is finish the project, finish it. So I'm kind of going against the grain with myself. And so in the meantime, just to try to avoid making the decision, I'm just kind of throwing myself into other things. So we'll see, we'll see how that turns out for me. But yeah, that's my favorite right now.

[00:06:45] I still, I have my albums on my desk here and I flip through them. And this year I just, um, I don't know. I felt like I was doing. I just was doing what I wanted to do this year, which is just a lot of interactive stuff that I've been enjoying. And, um, yeah, it was, it's, it's still my favorite right now. So I've done other things, but it's still my favorite.

[00:07:07] Jennifer Wilson: So one other thing that came to mind for me is that when I'm at that point of there's four pages left, I often will, like, abandon my grand ambitions and say, can we do, can we do pockets? Can we do full page photos? How can we make this simpler and maybe even batch it so that I could get this done in like an afternoon? Um, because I, you know, if I'm that close, I probably really want it done.

[00:07:33] Denine Zielinski: Yeah. I feel it. I do. I feel it, but I just, I don't want, I don't know. I don't want to, I don't want to allow myself to do that. I really want to, I, I just, I want to make those last four pages just as special as the first pages. And so I have. And I've done that before with things like Week in the Life and I've done that before with different projects. I do a summer project and I've done that. But I, I'm, like I said, I'm still kind of making up my mind. Um, so we'll see, we'll see what happens. But I do feel you when you say that. Absolutely.

[00:08:11] Jennifer Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I also feel like the tension between, you know, knowing your options and having trouble choosing between them.

[00:08:19] Denine Zielinski: Yeah. Well, you know what? I think I can have worse choices to make in life, right? So I'm trying not to make the biggest deal about it. I'm like, okay, it's not a big deal. Just don't even, don't obsess over this. Don't obsess over it, just roll with it. So that's what I'm trying to do.

[00:08:34] Jennifer Wilson: Well, if there's one place, well, there's two places, but if there's any places where we can really go into the nitty gritty of making these choices, it's here on the podcast and inside of the Simple Scrapper community. So it's, it's all good here.

[00:08:47] Denine Zielinski: Definitely. And you know what? We have to just do what feels right for us. And I think that, um, I think there's a lot of community members who we all feel that. And we support each other. And we say, Hey, you know what? You do you. And do what feels right. And I think that sometimes after we get to that point where we realize, you know what?

[00:09:08] You're right. Do what feels good for us. And so that's where I'm, just doing what feels good for me right now. And right now it's just kind of, you know, in between projects, right? I'm just in between making some decisions for the future. And I'm, I'm just going to let myself, like, You know, mull that over a little bit.

[00:09:27] Jennifer Wilson: Yeah, no doubt. I think that's a good, it's a good place to be. So is there something else that's on your mind in terms of something new you're excited to do, use, or try either in scrapbooking or in your everyday life?

[00:09:39] Denine Zielinski: Well, what I'm thinking about actually is a combination between scrapbooking and everyday life. Because, um, as I mentioned, I am an empty nester. I've actually been an empty nester. This will probably be about three years now. Um, and my son's bedroom is still set up exactly as it was. Um, and he's not coming home. And his room is this huge, beautifully, naturally lit, wonderful space.

[00:10:09] And I've been walking into it lately going, do I want to move my craft room up here? Do I want to make this big decision? I mean, because right now I'm, I'm on the first floor with my craft room and that's on the second floor. So it's, it's a, it sounds like a silly thing, but it's a big change. It's a, it's, moving everything is a big decision. But I'm getting excited as I think about it because I'm like, wow, there's so much more room there. And the beautiful natural light is just, it's just waiting for me. So I am actually currently making myself one of those little pro and con lists in order to help me make my decision, because I, I want to do the right thing for myself.

[00:10:55] And once this is, this is not something you could easily undo. That, I know I have to really think about it. But I definitely would love to be in a little bit of a bigger space right now. So that is a combination of both things, scrapbooking and everyday life.

[00:11:13] Jennifer Wilson: Well, and I think it's, It's exciting either way. You've thought through it and decided, you know what, I'm in the right place where I, where I should be. Or like, no, I want to, I want to take the effort to, to do this because I think the results will be worth it. So it's exciting. It's an exciting kind of thought experiment either way.

[00:11:30] Denine Zielinski: And, and it's funny because I've lived in the house that I'm currently in now for, oh gosh, it has to be 28 years. And prior to that, I never stayed in one place for too long. I moved from apartment to apartment to apartment. Because I always wanted that change. And now that I own my home, that kind of change is just not something you could do willy nilly. Um, but you can change what you have inside.

[00:11:57] And so I'm thinking, yeah, a nice change, and you know how change is, if you redecorate a room or you move furniture, it feels fresh, and it feels new, and it feels good. And so that's a part of You know, what's pushing me is I think that kind of change would be good for me and, and also, you know, just for my mental health.

[00:12:16] And I think we, we need change in life. I really do think it's necessary for us to mix things up a bit. And so this is something that's, it's, it's drawing me in. And so I'm hoping that I could commit. Because it's, it just seems to me like it's what I really want. I'm just, there's a little bit of apprehension, so. We'll see.

[00:12:36] Jennifer Wilson: Well, and as I look around my own space, I know that I've even just been hesitant to paint in here because of the colossal effort it would take to unscrew all the shelves and try to move the Kallax and just, you know, there's just a lot of stuff crammed into a small space. So to even paint the walls is, feels like this Herculean effort.

[00:12:57] Denine Zielinski: Yeah, lots of stuff. I mean, I'm sure just like a lot of other scrapbookers, we have accumulated so much. But I also try to look on the bright side and think, well, this is also an opportunity to maybe go through what I have and really take a look at, you know, what do I have and what do I still need?

[00:13:17] Because you know, as much as I do, that we put things in drawers and cabinets and

[00:13:23] boxes. And before you know it, we have things that we don't even know we have. So this is, it would definitely be something I would be doing over the summer. But it sounds, it's just such a perfect project. Um, just to kind of, a little, like a refresh, a refresh, that's what we'll call it. A nice refresh. So I'm hoping that I, I take the plunge, I, I, I want to get rid of all the fears and just say do it, go for it.

[00:13:50] Jennifer Wilson: Well, I can't wait to follow the progress. I'm sure you'll share about it if you, um, if you decide to take that leap.

[00:13:56] Denine Zielinski: I will. Absolutely. That's the first thing I was thinking was, okay, got to do some before pictures and then during pictures and after pictures. Because of course, as scrapbookers, that's what we do. So it'll be a fun thing to share with everyone. Absolutely.

[00:14:11] Jennifer Wilson: So when I think about six by eight spreads that are very like meticulously designed and full of story and full of color and sometimes interactivity, I think, of your pages. And so I want to dive into some of more of the details of that today. But so that our listeners can have even more lay of the land, particularly if they're not familiar with your work or didn't listen to your previous time on the show, can you talk to us a little bit more of the type of scrapbooking you typically do. You know, beyond December Daily and the types of products you predominantly use?

[00:14:50] Denine Zielinski: Okay. Um, I am a huge six by eight scrapbooker. It is, I keep coming back to it over and over again. And that is my main size. So I do other things. As a matter of fact, when we were speaking about December Daily, my mind started kind of drifting off to the little four by six album that Ali Edwards had put out this year.

[00:15:12] And I do have one of those, that I have added some stories into as well. Just to mix things up. And I enjoy it. I do. It's fun. traveler's notebooks are fun. So I will, I do have a traveler's notebook. I just started it for 2000, uh, for 2025. And, um, my six by eight is started and I have my, still my December Daily four by six.

[00:15:38] Um, but those, those are are just like, I'm into smaller sizes. I like the compact nature of it. So that's basically what I've been doing lately. And I have done larger sizes. But this is just, it has my heart. The smaller ones just feel, I don't know, they feel comfortable to me. I stick with them, I stick with them and I'm enjoying them a lot.

[00:15:58] I participate in other things too. Um, I, you know, it's not just regular 6x8. But I do, you know, I have a summer album where I just do one photo, one story a day, that is a, I think this will be my fourth year doing that. Um, because filling the pockets with the stories is also, that has my heart as well.

[00:16:18] Um, and then I participate in the projects that a lot of the Ali Edwards community participates in when it comes to Week in the Life and, Day in the Life. So, I kind of have my hands in different things.

[00:16:30] Jennifer Wilson: So do for your summer album, are you doing this concurrently with Project Life?

[00:16:37] Denine Zielinski: Yes, yes, I, the summer album is just, and in the, it, it's so simple. It is, it, it started out as a way for me to use the massive amount of 4x6 and 3x4 journal cards that I've collected through the years. And I told myself that I wasn't, I was nothing else, it's just pockets with the journal card and the photo. And so it might be a photo, something simple, it might be a picture of a flower. Um, and it will just talk about the flower, or it could be something, um, just maybe I went to lunch with someone, it'll just be a photo of what I ate that day.

[00:17:13] So they're kind of micro stories, and it's one from each day. And that is it. So, very specific, whereas my Project Life is more, I would say my Project Life, for me, is more general. I don't get into the specific nitty gritty as much as some other people do.

[00:17:33] Jennifer Wilson: Okay. So we'll talk more about, uh, like milestones of record and like overall what's happening versus, you know, these, as you said, micro details of a day. That maybe don't even have a bigger story. They're just, it's part of this creative practice that you're choosing to do for the summer.

[00:17:54] Denine Zielinski: Yeah, it's just kind of like a, like, let's, I have a, I have a paper, just one of those calendars that people write their, um, you know, their appointments in. I have that, and I would just kind of jot down details, uh, about what I did on each day. Uh, but this is focusing in on one particular story. So it might be something silly, like it could be anything.

[00:18:20] People, people used to laugh cause they're like, you took a picture of your refrigerator. And I'm like, yeah, I did, but that day my refrigerator broke and it was the story of the day. So I, it's not necessarily something that most people would consider telling the story of, but it was that the story of that day.

[00:18:39] So I will focus in on just one part of the day. And I love doing it. It's, it's, it's fun. And I do it each day. I do it daily. So I will take the picture and I will write the words and the next morning I'll get up and I'll print everything out and put it into the album. So it's kind of like keeping me, it's part of a ritual in the summer for me.

[00:19:01] Jennifer Wilson: Do you think that that project kind of provides a, like a surrogate routine that keeps you going, in your day to day flow in a similar way that going to school would every day.

[00:19:14] Denine Zielinski: Yeah, absolutely. I struggle for one week when school is over with. Because going from a very strict routine to a, like, no routine at all. Has,

[00:19:27] in 19 years, never been easy for me. And that first week is so hard. But I do, I think what you're saying is 100 percent true. I kind of make a routine for myself, and, and I, you know, I have to kind of regulate myself. Because it's, I could never work from home.

[00:19:44] I know people who do that to me, they, they deserve to be on a pedestal because it takes discipline to, you know, be your own boss of everything that you do. Instead of someone like at school, I don't have anyone telling me what to do. But I have a schedule that I have to follow. So yeah, definitely what you said is 100 percent on the money. It absolutely is.

[00:20:06] Jennifer Wilson: Well, and I think I want to highlight that for others who who do work in school communities and have that type of schedule throughout the year. That not only are you using this as a as a way to keep routine and build rhythm into your days, but also you're acknowledging that maybe the rest of the year, that type of project, like a photo a day type of project may not be sustainable because you do have other things going on. And it's okay to have projects that fit into certain times of the year.

[00:20:38] Denine Zielinski: Absolutely. And I, I, Many people who have seen, and I do share, I do share, it's a very simple project. So I'm not sharing anything spectacular in terms of, you know, um, different techniques or anything like that, but I do share. And people have been really appreciative of just the simplicity of the project.

[00:20:59] Um, and even though it's simple though, you're right. It may not fit into every season of your life. Because if you are, and, and for those people who work all year round, um, you know, they would even be able to make it simpler if they wanted to. Um, because I'm putting it into pockets, but a lot of times think about, you could take a photo, you could put some adhesive on the back, put it into a traveler's notebook and then just hand write some words. So you could modify people's ideas to fit into what your current situation is. So you don't have to say no to a project. You could think about how can I change that to fit into my world right now?

[00:21:38] Jennifer Wilson: Oh, correct. Yes. Yes. And I love that. Just the invitation to think about different ways to approach it so that it meets your needs right now, meets your personality, et cetera. And I think you've very much done that with, you know, your choice of sizes. Now you originally were a, like, you know, 12 by 12, like traditional scrapbooker, right?

[00:22:00] Denine Zielinski: Yes I was and I still have all those albums and they have such value. Um, and they were wonderful. I think for me when I was raising my son. Because I had so many more details to tell. And there was always something changing when you're raising a child So, you know the child is changing and you're changing and there's so much to tell. Not that my life isn't full. It's just different.

[00:22:25] It's different now. So for me, it makes more sense to have something that I'm not struggling with filling. Because I think what I what happened to me was I started to struggle. I went from 12 by 12. Then I went to nine by 12. And I thought this is the answer. But I was still struggling. And I felt like I was forcing myself to fill the pockets and to fill the pages.

[00:22:48] And this just feels more manageable. And, and you can you could expand on a 6x8 album by making things that fold out and putting hidden journaling in, and things that flip open. So I feel like I'm able to kind of mix it all together in one album. That's, that's what I do. I basically fill the album with pockets or regular spreads or whatever comes next and it just feels manageable.

[00:23:16] Jennifer Wilson: Well, that's one thing that I noticed about this year's December Daily. Um, you've been doing the 10 by 8 album size looks like for a couple of years now. But I noticed that your pages had, like, it was a huge variety of sizes. I, you only had maybe a few that were actually 10 by 8. And I think, was it more of your comfort zone in this 6 by 8, 8 by 8 plus the interactivity that had you going a little bit smaller? Or am I just, Not looking at your pictures holistically.

[00:23:43] Denine Zielinski: Yeah, no, I was looking at that. Um, and I'm thinking you're right. Um, I think I was just doing for me what felt, what just felt good. And I think that having the real estate in the 10 by 8 album is good. Knowing that it's there if I need it. But I wasn't forcing myself to fill every single story on a 10 by 8 page. I just was going with, here's the story. Here's what matters with my photos. And, these would work better on a smaller size. But I also knew that if I had more, that I could add more. So I'm comfortable in the 10 by 8, even though admittedly, I am not doing everything in 10 by 8. I'm just, I'm kind of giving myself room to grow if I need to.

[00:24:30] That's how I kind of look at it. Instead of just keeping myself constrained to the 6 by 8. I could, I could be bigger if I want to. So yeah, you, you, I was, I counted, I definitely have more smaller pages than I do bigger pages, for sure.

[00:24:45] Jennifer Wilson: Now you mentioned earlier that you did start a traveler's notebook for this year. So what, what brought that about and what is like kind of the, the function of that particular project?

[00:24:58] Denine Zielinski: I like working in traveler's notebook, and I did my Project Life in a traveler's notebook for 2023. And I enjoyed it. But, the problem that I ran into was, I'm, I, I like, I like dimension, I like dimension, and I like thickness. And I was filling notebook after notebook after notebook. And I filled probably for that year, probably about six or seven traveler's notebooks.

[00:25:28] And I do have them stored in these wonderful little binders. But I just felt like I, I couldn't do Project Life that way anymore. Because I was, I just was feeling too constrained. But I didn't want to give up the traveler's notebook. I love them. I just think they are adorable. And I just kind of pick a story. Any story. There's no rhyme or reason to it whatsoever. I'll just say, you know what? I think I'll do this one in the traveler's notebook. And so it's nothing that pushes me or pulls me. It's just, I think it's fun. I think it's fun to, to mix things up a bit. So I have decided that I will do at least one traveler's notebook each year and fill it with whatever story feel like they belong in there.

[00:26:11] And, um, so I started it and I'm excited. I'm excited. I got a nice cover, um, for it. So it's just another fun way, another fun outlet. Some people do planners and that's, that is another outlet for them. Um, but so the traveler's notebook is kind of like another way for me to, um, be creative in a different size, just to mix things up a bit.

[00:26:32] Jennifer Wilson: So would it be fair to say kind of your thought process is like, I'm trying to like think in a flow chart here. Is this for Project Life? Yes. Then you're going to go six by eight pockets for the most part. If no, then you're going to choose, am I doing Traveler's Notebook? Am I doing 6x8 spread? Now, when you're doing 6x8s, you're predominantly creating a full, basically, 12x8 spread most of the time, right?

[00:26:57] Denine Zielinski: Yeah.

[00:26:58] Jennifer Wilson: How often will you actually do like one 6x8 page? I don't think I see that from you very often.

[00:27:03] Denine Zielinski: I can't I don't know why. I just, I don't know. I don't, I don't generally use just one page. It's usually the spread. And with the seven by eight and a quarter size, it fits outside of the page protector. Um, I actually have a template that I made in, um, Photoshop. That is size 14 by 8 and a quarter. Because my mind just automatically knows I'm going to have a first page and I'm going to have a second page. And so it's very rare that you see me actually doing one page.

[00:27:34] I don't, I never really put a lot of thought into that, but, but you're right. I'm, I'm drawn to it. I'm just, I'm drawn to having both pages together.

[00:27:45] Jennifer Wilson: Why do you think that is different from, say, working on a 9x12? Is it just that it's landscape? Like, how does your brain think differently about that? Because you mentioned earlier that you felt like 9x12 was still too big. But

[00:27:58] Denine Zielinski: And for some, I know.

[00:28:00] Jennifer Wilson: Bigger in area.

[00:28:02] Denine Zielinski: I think it's because you could fold it in half.

[00:28:05] Jennifer Wilson: Okay.

[00:28:06] Denine Zielinski: When you close the 6x8 album, like, you close it, and it's little. And when I look at my shelf, I mean, I have the Ikea shelves, and my 12x12 albums barely fit in those boxes. They're huge. Um, and I don't know. I just, I just, I don't feel cozy.

[00:28:27] I know that's not a real word that you use with scrapbooking, but it doesn't feel cozy. I just feel like it's just too open range for me. And, um, yeah, I look at them and I say, I think I did a pretty good job in that size. I have some creative stuff going on, but right now I'm just not feeling that. So, and it doesn't mean I'll never go back.

[00:28:46] It just means right now I'm, I'm feeling that I need this, this littler size. Um, that feels a little cozy to me.

[00:28:53] Jennifer Wilson: Well, and I totally get that with the album sizes. Every step down from 12x12 feels more manageable. And then of course, 6x8 and even smaller is like, Oh, this actually fits on my desk right in front of me. I don't have to clear everything out, um, just to try to open the album.

[00:29:11] Denine Zielinski: Absolutely. And, and, um, I used to leave my 12x12 Project Life album open on the table behind me. And it took up a lot of space. So now my table behind me has my December Daily laying out, and then next to it is my Project Life. And then I still have my 4x6 album, and I just I love to walk past the table and look at them and go, Oh, look how cute they are laying next to each other. It's just, it's just, it's more, it's feeling more like, I feel like right now it's the size that works for me. And like you had mentioned, you're right. 14 inches wide is a lot of space. But I think because it's folded that it doesn't feel like it's that much. I'm getting the best worlds.

[00:29:54] Jennifer Wilson: So interesting how our brains can, like, process that information differently and, and, like, feel different ways about it.

[00:30:01] Denine Zielinski: Absolutely. And I just think at this point in time, it's, it's just for me, just thinking about it on the level of, okay, um, I have the space to do a 14 wide spread, 14 inches wide. But you're right. I could always just go down to one page six by eight. So again, I think I'm, I think I feel like I'm giving myself more options.

[00:30:24] Jennifer Wilson: Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. I get it. I've, yeah, no, like, no judgment or pressure to do anything. Just trying to observe kind of, um, how, how you like to work and how your, how your brain thinks about scrapbooking. I'm curious how you are making decisions. Like, even on a, you know, when you sit down to scrapbook, how are you thinking about the products you want to use, the photos you want to scrapbook, the stories you want to tell, and then, like, the, the designs that maybe you want to scrap with somebody else, or you had this idea.

[00:30:57] How do, how is the order of operations when you're making those decisions for you?

[00:31:01] Denine Zielinski: Well, most of, and I actually, I can't remember what, I know at some point in time I did, um, a process video of my thought process. I actually, I want to say it was for one of my Big Picture Classes. But I actually was thinking I had to put some thought into that about what, how do I start? Um, and I love, I love to start with the story or the photo. That is, like, if a photo catches my eye, I just feel like I want to start there. Um, I think I get derailed a little bit because sometimes when I'm working on projects for the Ali Edwards classrooms or for the blog, I have to use certain products. And it's not that I don't want to use them. But it's sometimes it's hard to put the product first for me.

[00:31:53] Um, and it doesn't mean I don't like the product, it just means that right now my brain wants to tell this story, how do I marry that with maybe these products that I, you know, that I'm currently on my desk and I have a deadline to use. So, I'm, I'm learning how to kind of, you know, you know, put those two things together. But initially, I, I always want to start with, these are the stories I have to tell. I keep the stories on my phone, in my notes app, and I pull from there. And so, I just feel like that's where I want to start. Sometimes I have to negotiate with myself. You know, we have a birthday kit. How do I use this birthday kit to tell this story that I'm drawn to? And so you have to be a little creative sometimes, mixing things together. But it's possible, possible. Absolutely.

[00:32:42] I'm contributing this year in the Scrapbook By the Month classroom. Which is a monthly project that has a kit that is themed by the month. And I think this is my second project. And neither one of them have anything to do with the month that they're in. I just, I just, do like my February project was a December Daily project.

[00:33:03] And now my March project has nothing to do with March at all. So I just. I'm just doing. Because I, my mind is going, look, I don't want to tell a March story. I don't want to tell a March story. I want to tell this story. So I just have to put them together and make it work. And I think it helps you to stretch your creativity a little bit.

[00:33:20] Jennifer Wilson: Well, and I think it shows others the versatility of the products. And then kind of on the other side, when you're creating for Simple Scrapper, the versatility of the prompts is that we may be giving a prompt about one particular thing, and you're, you know, maybe taking it in a December Daily direction. Which wouldn't have come up otherwise, unless that was a priority for you.

[00:33:41] Denine Zielinski: Well, my, the Simple Scrapper, that all of the things that I do for Simple Scrapper are just, they're just fun. Um, no pressure. And I just, I just do. And I love it. Um, because there are things that, that are, you know, the, some of the prompts I'll go, I would never have thought of that. And I would have never have done that.

[00:34:04] Oh my God, this is, and at first I might panic a little bit. I'll go, Oh, how am I going to do that? I don't, I never get, I'll, and I'll start to worry and then I'll calm down. Think about it. And then I always think about what you guys always say, just, you know, if you ask, the answer is probably going to be, yes, just do it, whatever pulls you, that feels so good to me. You know, it feels so good. Um, and as a matter of fact, that's, my my first traveler's notebook spread, um, was one that I had done for Simple Scrapper. So, um, it just feels, there's, there are two totally different entities for me. Just they're completely different. And I like both of them.

[00:34:42] So it's kind of fun to be able to have a little structure and then fun to kind of just let loose. You get the best of both worlds there as well.

[00:34:50] Jennifer Wilson: Yes. I mean, even sometimes when I'm doing the prompts, whether I came up with it or another team member came up with it, I'm like, okay, this, this is a challenge for me because I've not done this before. I've seen other people do it. So that's why maybe I even wrote the prompt, but I haven't done it myself.

[00:35:05] And so it's always interesting to try to approach starting and creating your page in a different way. So, and we learn from that and may pick up things that we want to continue doing.

[00:35:17] Denine Zielinski: Absolutely. And also being able to see other team members and their interpretation of things is, is really great. It's just great for me to look at that. I never thought of that. Wow. I think the inspiration. It's just, it's, there's so much inspiration. It's just, it's, it's not just inspiration with a product, which is fine. But it's inspiration with people's creative minds.

[00:35:48] And seeing how they interpreted something differently and it, it just, I think it just gets on a different part of my brain that makes me go, Oh, I feel like I'm really free. I can do whatever I want. And it's, it's experimental sometimes, right? I'll go, well, I've never done something that goes from one end of the page to the other.

[00:36:04] I usually have a lot of space and like, wow, how could I do this? But then I do it and I go, okay, that's me. I did it. It feels good. So it's, it's fun. Fun to participate in those prompts. I love it.

[00:36:17] Jennifer Wilson: So, one of the things that I think it becomes so striking about your, uh, six by eight spreads or 14 by 8. 25, whatever they are, you know. Um, your, your, your landscape, uh, rectangles with a gutter down the middle, um, is, is how much you fit on the page. When I've done that size before, I tend to think of it in the same way that I would trade a 12 by 12. And I'm trying to layer things and I'm just doing it on smaller scale, smaller photos. But you had, you have just like a very like tight precision with it. And I think a lot of that comes from doing things in a hybrid way. But can you talk more about, like some of the techniques that are a core part of your process.

[00:37:06] That make it possible to have to have fold outs, to get so many words on the page, to have everything be so, you know, I'm like gesturing of my hands of just like this tight little package. And I know some of that is just, you know, personality and, you know, design. The way your brain works. But if you had to like boil it down to to techniques that scrapbookers use, which ones would those be?

[00:37:33] Denine Zielinski: Um, well, like I mentioned earlier, and this truly rings true for me, 99 percent of the time, I start everything in Photoshop all the time. Everything, even if I'm using physical products. I start everything on a canvas in Photoshop just to kind of think how will this all fit. And I will create little, like, if I know that the embellishment, it might be an embellishment that is a heart, but I will do the measurements of the heart and I will put a square box that is about the same size, just because I want to see how is everything going to fit together.

[00:38:14] And I think that is what really drew me into hybrid scrapbooking. Because, and I don't often times. I mean, I do print out digital products, there's no doubt. But I still want to incorporate the physical into what I'm doing. So, I feel like starting in Photoshop lets me kind of pre plan. And even if I'm using the physical product, I'm getting kind of like a Like an architect would kind of do, you know, a drawing of building something.

[00:38:46] I feel like I'm doing a drawing that is going to turn into the physical piece. And I think that's what allows me to fit everything. Because I'm, I'm pre thinking, I'm thinking ahead of time. I think that is, that is the key to being able to, for me at least, get all the photos and all the story onto the page.

[00:39:06] Jennifer Wilson: How often would you say you're printing digitals, printing on the physical products, or are you one that also uses the clear sticker paper to add journaling? Or do you do all three of those? Like, but what would your balance be?

[00:39:20] Denine Zielinski: Um, I think I like to print on the physical the most. And I think that might just, my silly reason might be because I, I have the physical product and I want to use the physical product. I, I don't want to just get the physical pieces and then just put them in my stash. Do you know what I mean?

[00:39:40] Jennifer Wilson: Oh yeah. No, I can see that. Cause even if you are using the digitals as part of your mock up, you want to use up your physical products. And I totally get that because then you still have the physical products and because, you know, we're often bringing in things, whether you're, uh, doing this more in a professional capacity or you're subscribing to products, we want to use them up because more will be coming.

[00:40:07] Denine Zielinski: And they, and they keep coming. And I think for me, um, for example, I think there was one time last year where I didn't get my physical product yet, but I had the digital kit. So I did the whole spread with the digital kit and that was wonderful. I mean, probably most people would not know. And, um, when the physical came, I went, well, I'm not going to use this now because I already used this design and I don't know if I'll use this now.

[00:40:35] It just kind of felt like I was ignoring the physical because I had already used that particular page in a digital format. So I really do try to make a mock up, but then use as much physical as I can. Because we all probably have way more stuff than we need, so use the stuff. Because the digital could be changed. I mean, any digital paper that you have, you could recolor, you could resize, you could cut. You could do so many things to it, to change what it looks like. But the physical is what it is. So I just, I always try whatever I can to use the physical product, without relying heavily on printing out the digital.

[00:41:17] Jennifer Wilson: I'm curious if you, I know you've, you just said that you've created like a full page with the digital products. But really, have you done anything where you considered you were digital scrapbooking. Like maybe like using drop shadows and creating a digital layout You may or may not have printed later.

[00:41:33] Denine Zielinski: I did that in the early 2000s. I did that, and that's the last time I probably did that in the early 2000s. There used to be, I'm sure you know, there used to be a magazine called Memory Makers, I think it was. Memory Makers Magazine and they had Memory Makers Masters. It was a yearly contest. And the one year I submitted completely digital. And it was, I learned and taught myself how to do drop shadows and how to make things look realistic.

[00:42:06] Um, and so that was like my first dive into stuff like that. And I could still do that now. Um, and every once in a while I will play with something and do something like that, but for the most part, I love the real life dimension of things. So I probably would never go back to just, you know, even though when you look at it, it looks like it has dimension. Putting it, like, in my album without the dimension would feel like something was missing for me, because I enjoy dimension so much.

[00:42:38] Jennifer Wilson: I started as completely digital, you know, in late 2000s and did that until my daughter was born. And then when I tried again, I remember it was like 2012, 2013. I was like, this doesn't, and I love all you digital scrapbookers and you make amazing pages, but it just, it didn't feel complete to me because it didn't have the tactile dimension to it. Um, So I, I totally get that for sure.

[00:43:03] Denine Zielinski: I, I agree. And when I see, if I scroll on Instagram and I see some of the digital pages that people put together, I am in awe. I am really astounded. And I look at them and go, gosh, that is absolutely gorgeous. I just feel like it doesn't satisfy what I need it to satisfy for me. So, I could appreciate it from afar. Um, but I think that right now that's about all I can do. Because I need to, and that's why my albums end up being so thick, because I just need to have that, that dimension and that, that texture. That's what satisfies me.

[00:43:40] Jennifer Wilson: Sure. Um, I, yeah, I get that. I wanted to, before we move on, I wanted to talk about working in an album that has rings. So we not only just have the break in the page, we have space when you, when you're looking at it. And now I know we don't always photograph our pages that way. Um, we might photograph them together, but how are you thinking about design when it comes with like crossing the gutter?

[00:44:06] Are your pages kind of, always different enough. Or do you do elements that span, span the gap and then cut things in half?

[00:44:16] Denine Zielinski: Yeah, I've done both. I've done both. I absolutely have done both. Um, I probably have not done a page that kind of crosses over and you have to cut it so that you can put it into the album. I have probably haven't done one since last summer. Um, but I, I have done both. Right now, I am, I'm actually photographing my project in the album right now.

[00:44:41] If someone were to go on my Instagram, they would see probably very few of my pages are photographed outside of the album. I'm just kind of just diving right in and because it just feels right. I used to photograph them laying flat on a white board and I still do, uh, when I need to. But I just, I know the rings are going to be there and I, I guess it feels more authentic to me.

[00:45:07] Um, when I put it on, like when I put it in the album and I take a picture of it because that's what it really looks like to me. Um, and I know that when they're together, it's like how they're supposed to look, but that's not really how they're ever going to look, I guess. Like, it feels just authentic to me to just have the rings there. So that people could see, oh, okay, look at how she dealt, you know, how did she deal with those rings?

[00:45:31] Um, well, the photo that crosses over just happens to be one where the person is more to the left, and you were able to cut it down so that the right side of the picture is, it's okay for there to be a line going through it, or for rings to be there. I think, I don't know. Honestly, now that I'm talking about it, um, I don't get hung up on it. I just don't. I don't. As long as someone's eyeball isn't being poked by a ring, I think I'm usually okay. I, I think sometimes I'll go, you know, Oh wait, that's covering my face. And then I'll go, who cares? I, I really, this past year has been a year for just letting go for me. It really has, uh, of my, of my very strict ways. And I've just been like, that's okay. It's okay. So I'm okay with that ring.

[00:46:18] Jennifer Wilson: That's awesome. I mean, that's, that's like, that's, uh, I think that commonly happens to us as we get a little bit older. The number of Fs we give kind of decreases a bit. So.

[00:46:28] Denine Zielinski: 100 percent I agree. I agree. And I think it's funny because I recognize that I'm getting older in a lot of different, you know, areas of my life. But a lot of people maybe don't think about the positive things of getting older. I feel so free. I feel more free than I ever have. In terms of just, just doing whatever I want and not worrying about what anybody thinks. And putting that page together and just saying, you know what? It's okay. I scratched that. Or there's a mark here, whatever. And I just, I feel freer and it just feels good to be able to not be so strict with myself, not be so hard on myself. And I think that if that's what comes with age, that a lot of younger people have something wonderful to look forward to because it feels really good. It really does.

[00:47:15] Jennifer Wilson: 100%. Yes. Yes. So, our final question here is kind of a, I can't even call it bittersweet, it's sad. Um, I remember when the announcement came for when Big Picture Classes was sold, and now they've just announced that they are closing in May. I know that you were one that was releasing classes, um, regularly, and you just had one come out in December. So I'm just wanting to check in and find out how you're feeling about this. It's kind of part of a, a bigger time of transition for our industry.

[00:47:47] And, uh, I think there's a lot of folks talking about this and interested in, in hearing different perspectives.

[00:47:53] Denine Zielinski: Well, um, yeah, as a matter of fact, I will tell you that the email ended up in my spam folder. And so, luckily for me, before I delete my spam folder, I just kind of glanced through to make sure that, you know, Mr. Spam hasn't taken anything that he shouldn't take. And I saw it and went, what is that? So I sent it to my inbox and I went and it was funny because I I had a feeling. I and again I have no reason to believe anything.

[00:48:20] I don't have any insider information. But I just had a feeling I don't know why I had a feeling I just did. And and um, and so yeah, I'm sad. But the email that they sent rung true on so many levels so many people are creating on their own platforms now. And it's.

[00:48:40] Jennifer Wilson: It's it's easier to do that than it was when they launched this particular platform.

[00:48:46] Denine Zielinski: 100 percent yes. And I think that now that people are, with the technology going going in the direction that it is and the ease of things things years ago were harder to do. I remember years ago, you know trying to create a web page and it was such a task to do. But now everything is so easy you drag and you drop and you just go bam and there it is. And I think that with YouTube and Instagram, and there's just so many different platforms that people share on that.

[00:49:15] I think Big Picture probably, you know, felt that it, you know, it's not as lucrative as it used to be. Um, and it's sad. It is. Um, but I will say, Um, and again, they were sold and things changed. Um, I'm not sure how people feel about subscribing on a monthly basis to things. Um, I think people, people like freedom.

[00:49:37] They want to pick and choose. Um, and even though to me, the cost for it, like per month was really not much. I think some people feel like there's too much content that they'll never get to. They would rather just go, Oh, look, here's this one class on, Um, you know, a vacation, you know, here's your vacation scrapbook class.

[00:49:59] That's, we think that's how people think these days. They want to focus in on one thing. So, um, and it's easy to go to YouTube and find a video about you know, someone who put together a travel album. Uh, it's just, yeah, it's, it was, it reminded me of how it was when the scrapbook magazines stopped doing their thing all those years ago.

[00:50:21] Um, it's just, it's just another, just another step toward a new future. That, that we don't know, could be bigger and better. Um, but I'm sad because I really enjoyed creating for those classes. It was, it was, um, it was, it was a privilege. And I think I created four classes all together over the past three years. And, um, yeah, I think they said they were going to be available until May. But I don't think anything will be available after that. Which is, is, that's kind of sad in itself. Because there's such good content on there.

[00:50:58] Um, that you, you won't be able to access after May. But I will tell you, um, if it's appropriate to say, um, I just logged in the other day after they had said that, um, after they had said that they were closing, I logged in the other day and people are reacting. Because a lot of the, um, numbers of my classes had jumped dramatically.

[00:51:21] Um, in like four or five days since, since they announced that. People, um, are probably going on and saying, okay, I won't be able to access this content from May. So let's, let's get in there. Because I was surprised and wow, that's a lot of people taking my class. And so perhaps people are feeling it as well. That they're going to miss that content. So they're trying to get that content in now. I don't know.

[00:51:49] Jennifer Wilson: Well, I think we do take for granted for something like that, that maybe that we've just been doing for a while that it'll be there when, when you have time or different amounts of time. Or your interests change, like, Oh, I know I can go there to, to look for a particular tutorial.

[00:52:04] Denine Zielinski: What you just said was so true. If your interests change. And having that Big Picture platform with so much content, so different, so it's just, it's an amazing collection of, of It's just, it's incredible. But you could go on that platform and you could put in the search bar, you know, uh, mixed media.

[00:52:26] You could put in the search bar, you know, creative cards, um, traveler's notebook, um, Halloween, and you're going to get, you know, tons of results. And I think that, I think people will miss that. I really do. I think they're going to miss just calling up that content whenever they feel like their interest has changed. That's a perfect way to put it.

[00:52:47] Jennifer Wilson: Yeah, I'm trying to think of things outside of scrapbooking as well. And I'm, I don't know, I'm particularly attuned to people's habits because I have a subscription myself. But even my own behavior with other subscriptions, um, I've been, you know, especially this time of year, trying to figure out what type of strength training app I want to use.

[00:53:08] And I tried a bunch of different things and the one that was the most, telling me what to do when was the one that I settled on versus the one that had all the options.

[00:53:18] Because I didn't want to make those decisions. Even though it was way more options and I could have anything. I could have a, you know, a Taylor Swift dance workout if I wanted, or, you know, a lower body booty lifting workout if

[00:53:31] I wanted. But no, I just want to do something consistently. And so I really just want you to tell me what to do and I will show up for this 30 to 45 minutes to do it. Um, and so I think that type of consumer behavior maybe influences this as well. Because we're overwhelmed by how much is out there.

[00:53:49] Denine Zielinski: And that is a wonderful analogy. And it it, it's very true. Because as you were talking, I'm thinking, yeah, I know how that feels, man. Sometimes I just want someone to tell me what to do. Just tell me what you want. Because, because decision making is a lot. It's a lot. And I think that sometimes if we could take that decision making out. And, and again, that brings me back to what projects I do for Simple Scrapper, like you guys are telling me what to do.

[00:54:15] At least you're giving me a box and I'm going, okay, this is good. This is good. Because sometimes we are, we're all overwhelmed. I mean, I don't know if Ali Edwards, You know, um, how, how often she gets overwhelmed, but even those people like the Heidi Swapps and the Ali Edwards, I'm sure they get overwhelmed.

[00:54:34] We were human. It's what happens. And sometimes for someone, yeah. For someone just to say, look here, do this. Okay. I'll do it. And no thought, right? You could, you could take all your energy and put it into the production of something as opposed to the thinking. Because a lot of times that's why we go to other people for inspiration, because we want to take that, that thought process out.

[00:54:56] And that's why we scrap lift too, because we can go, Oh, look at someone else did all the work and now I can have a pretty page. And it's okay. It's totally okay.

[00:55:04] Jennifer Wilson: Well, and that very much influenced, you know, how we've evolved to having our journey planning structure. So we're, we're giving you the rails to then, okay. And, and often the time we give time at our member meetings every month for you to sit down and make your plan. Because we know even getting focused enough to make decisions can be hard. So here, let's ask you some questions so you can think through what's going on in your life, what's important to you, what do you want to work on. And then you can hit the ground running, um, from there. So I, I'm, I'm glad we've evolved to, to, to, fit, uh, consumer behavior as well. As I'm, as I'm thinking about this during our conversation.

[00:55:43] Denine Zielinski: It's like a scrapbook therapist, right? Like, you know, like, think about, okay, I'm going to see my scrapbook therapist today. Um, she's going to guide me through to help me make decisions when I can't do it for myself, right? So getting together with other like minded people, and also, again, throwing ideas off each other. And sometimes you walk away and go, wow, that was, that was awesome. I feel like I have it together now. And that's one thing, that I can say is I don't have any local scrapbook friends. But when I have the opportunity to connect with people online, it is so good.

[00:56:20] Um, because I think that does help us to streamline. And that's, you know, what you guys do is help us to streamline. This is what, where we're headed and it's like you said, it's like a rail, you know, you could, you could, you're traveling along the rail, you have your own identity, you have your own creativity, but you have something to keep you moving forward. And so yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of good to that. There's a lot of good to that.

[00:56:46] Jennifer Wilson: And feeling connected and positive and hopeful about our hobby and the world as a whole, if you will. So.

[00:56:53] Denine Zielinski: 100%, 100%.

[00:56:54] Jennifer Wilson: I think we've ended on, on a positive note here, despite, um, disappointing news.

[00:57:00] Um, one of, you know, lots of things that have been changing in the industry and as, as businesses, I know how much that, how important that is. And, you know, but as long as we keep showing up and also encouraging that next generation and sharing why we value this so much, I have to believe that scrapbooking will, will continue.

[00:57:22] Denine Zielinski: And I agree with you. Absolutely. It will. I know it will because it's been around for a very long time in many different forms, many different styles.

[00:57:30] And, um, it has, it has, it has evolved through the years. I mean, this is what my 25th year of scrapbooking in one way or another. I started out selling paper piecings on eBay.

[00:57:42] Um, I was never scrapbooking for myself, but I was doing it for others. And then I was like, maybe I should start doing this for myself, and it just kind of evolved. So I think we're all evolving, and I think that, um, bittersweet it might be, but there's good things ahead. And, um, change is necessary. I, I, I just think that without change, we can't grow. So, um, and a little bit of discomfort is what's needed for growth. So, we'll, we'll make it one way or another.

[00:58:07] Jennifer Wilson: Very true. Very true. Thank you for this wonderful conversation. Can you share where our listeners can find you online and any sneak peeks of anything you might have new or coming up this year?

[00:58:20] Denine Zielinski: Well, um, YouTube, I am Denine2 which, um, D E N I N E 2, and then the same thing on Instagram as well. And I. This past year, just in November, I opened my own Etsy shop, so I started doing that as well, and that is Digital by Deneen. So, I am sharing some of the things that I've created, um, with others, in hopes that it would help to inspire them.

[00:58:44] So, I am, um, also on the Ali Edwards website, in her classrooms, story, the new storytelling kits, and the Scrapbook By The Month. So, I am, I'm busy, but I'm around, and I love when people reach out, so I'd love to hear from people if, if they want to reach out. You know, just kind of talk scrapbooking, right?

[00:59:01] Jennifer Wilson: Yes, I, cause we're, we're good at that for sure.

[00:59:04] Denine Zielinski: We are very good at that, absolutely. 100%, and you know what? It's good to have support and like minded people around. That's why we join together for stuff like this. Just to, um, to enjoy something together. And I think it just makes it so much more fun when we're all in it as a community. So, um, I think that this is just a wonderful, very embracing community. So, it's great to be a part of it.

[00:59:28] Jennifer Wilson: Thank you for spending time with me and to all of our listeners, please remember that you have permission to scrapbook your way.